A weekend of ‘Deathly Hallows’ nerdery
NOTE: This is a SPOILER THREAD for “Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.” The post itself has no spoilers, but people posting comments on it are welcome to discuss the book as freely as they want to, which includes mentioning plot details.
Well! So much for the Harry Potter books!
I ordered mine from Amazon, and they’d sent an e-mail saying it would be delivered by UPS on Saturday. This meant I spent the first part of the day lurking around my apartment with one eye on the window, keeping watch for the UPS guy. I put off taking a shower for fear of missing him while I was in there. Amazon had said the package wouldn’t require a signature, but there was no guarantee the UPS guy would consider my doorstep safe enough to leave it if no one answered the door. THERE WAS NO GUARANTEE!!
He finally showed up at about 1:30. He looked haggard (not Hagrid; haggard), and I said, “Busy day, I’ll bet?” He laughed and said yeah, it had been busy. I was his very last stop, as it happens, which he seemed apologetic about.
I set to work reading it at about 2, and read for about the next 10 hours, taking occasional breaks here and there to do other things. I was up to about page 550 when I went to bed, leaving 200 pages to finish on Sunday.
Normally I have no problem taking my time with a book and reading it over the course of several days. But in this case, I wanted to hurry up and finish it so that I wouldn’t run the risk of having things spoiled for me. As long as I was reading it, I had to be very careful where I went on the Internet, lest someone shout out a spoiler just to ruin it for people.
Do people do that? Oh yes they do. When book 6 came out two years ago, I was in the middle of reading it when I was browsing at Fark.com one day, and reading some discussion thread about something entirely non-Potter-related. People were talking about whatever the issue was, and then, right in the middle, some jackass posted a message with just three words: “_____ kills _____!” [Names omitted in case you haven't read Harry Potter book 6 yet.]
To people reading the thread who knew nothing about Harry Potter, it just looked like an odd, random, non-sequitur thing to say. To Harry Potter readers, they knew exactly what this person was doing. He was spoiling a HUGE twist in the plot. And why? Because he was an anus.
So that’s why I wanted to hurry up with “Deathly Hallows,” and I’m glad to say I made it through before anything was spoiled for me. Well, I had inadvertently seen a “spoiler” earlier in the week, but it proved to be false, which I had suspected it might be. Turns out Hagrid does NOT devour a house-elf on a dare.
Who else read it this weekend? What did you think? Feel free to discuss, spoil, and ruminate in the comments.
July 23rd, 2007 at 11:45 am
I was pissed me and Hermoine never hooked up!
July 23rd, 2007 at 11:56 am
I picked up a copy the old-fashioned way (at the bookstore) around noon on Saturday and read all afternoon as well as Sunday afternoon. My husband read the last chapter and said something that indicated Harry was going to die, so I was expecting it all the way to the end. At the end, I berated him and he had a good laugh on my behalf.
I will admit that I cried three times: when Ron came back, when Dobby died, and when Harry summoned his parents.
July 23rd, 2007 at 11:59 am
I did the same thing, reading it really quickly so as not to be subjected to spoilers. Even though I didn’t really get started with my reading until Saturday night I avoided all news outlets so as not to be spoiled.
Anyway, I loved it and was very satisfied with the ending. I remember at one point thinking “oh no, she reall IS going to kill Harry Potter!” but then was happy with how it turned out.
One bummer, I had read somewhere that the last word would be “scar”, so I was a bit disappointed that it was not.
July 23rd, 2007 at 12:05 pm
Hermonie’s really a guy!Ron’s been dead the whole time, he just didn’t realize it! It was all imagined by Neville, who is really the Autistic kid on Saint Elsewhere!
Okay, I’m done now.
July 23rd, 2007 at 12:32 pm
There was one thing in the continuity of the book that I thought didn’t make any sense, or else I just missed it. After Harry escapes from Privet Drive and ends up at the Burrow they keep talking about the fact that they were betrayed. Who betrayed them? Snape talked about another source he had during the first chapter but we never found out who it was. Or was it just Mundungus under a curse?
Then during the flashback later we see Snape talking to Dumbledore’s portrait and the portrait says Snape will have to tell Voldemort the real date of Harry’s departure. I didn’t think Snape was headmaster at that point so what was he doing in that office? Please let me know if I’m just missing something.
July 23rd, 2007 at 12:38 pm
I finished the book last night, for precisely the same reason as Eric: fear of happening upon spoilers.
I thought it was a pretty near-perfect wrap up of the series — she gave the ending just enough heft, length, and sense of declining action to allow you to get wistful, but without succumbing to the LOTR-multiple-endings syndrome.
Most improbable (but still cool) part: the break-in — and break-out — of Gringott’s.
Most satisfying moment: Mrs. Weasley dueling Bellatrix.
Most touching: Harry summoning his parents, Sirius, and Remus.
Most striking image: memories leaking out of Snape’s eyes, ears, and mouth.
All I can say is, pity the poor screenwriter who’s going to have to adapt this into a three-hour movie, because he’s going to have to leave out at least half of everything, and he’s going to get hung out to dry.
July 23rd, 2007 at 12:44 pm
I, too, bought mine through Amazon, but they had UPS take it to USPS and then USPS put it in my mailbox by 10:30am. I was rather annoyed because I also had been paranoid about the UPS guy not just leaving it on the porch, and couldn’t sleep in that morning because of worrying about it. Grr.
I was very surprised she didn’t kill of any of the main trio. None of the deaths were upsetting to me, though, although I did wonder why she had to kill of Hedwig. I think the only two deaths that could have made me sad were Hermione and Harry (and Dumbledore), just because I don’t really get emotionally attached to secondary characters.
The epilogue was a surprise. I guess she did that to appease readers that wanted to know how they turned out. But I thought it was kind of optimistic to think that Harry and Ginny and Ron and Hermione would end up married. While I know 17-year-olds do occasionally marry their high-school loves, it just doesn’t seem very LIKELY.
Anyway, I liked the book and enjoyed reading it (Hermione’s bottomless pit of a purse reminded me of adventure games where the main character has large items in their inventory that they somehow manage to carry with them, perhaps in their pants or something). It was a good way to end the series, and I enjoyed being in J.K. Rowling’s magical world once more.
July 23rd, 2007 at 1:14 pm
I as well took a break from the Internet over the past few days and did successfully remain spoiler-free. I sent my wife to get the book at midnight on Fri/Sat and we were both definitely worried that there would be some sort of shenanigans.
One guy in line did threaten to (after he had bought his book) turn to the last page and spoil the ending, but he was summarily beaten.
I told her “If you see anybody in wizard’s robes at Kroger, make sure to run the other way”
July 23rd, 2007 at 1:30 pm
I have a real spoiler-full post that has a question about the Elder Wand. It’s established that the only way for a wizard to be the “true” Master of the wand is by defeating the previous owner, but Grindelwald got the wand by stealing it from Gregorvitch. Doesn’t that mean that Gregorovitch would still be the true owner, since he hadnt been defeated? The only explanation I can come up with is Gregorivitch stole the wand from it’s true owner, and that owner was killed/defeated/tortured by Grindelwald. I know that wands in the wandshops choose their owner, but that seems to only apply to wands that had no master, IE new, unowned ones.
July 23rd, 2007 at 1:31 pm
I kind of feel the same way. I like to take my time reading a book, but I’m trying to finish this one quickly so I can start talking to my friends who’ve already read it.
July 23rd, 2007 at 1:37 pm
I’m not sure what time my book showed up at my door, since I was sleeping off my Midnight-Muggle-Madness-induced sleep-deprivation hangover until noon, and when I got up it had already arrived. I started reading immediately, but I had to interrupt my reading for a date (dinner and a movie) that I had scheduled for Saturday in a moment of confusion or madness. Fortunately, that only took up about three hours of my afternoon, and I had the book finished before 9:30pm. In any event, I enjoyed it immensely, and am currently re-reading it at a more leisurely pace.
The middle of the book did drag a bit for me, but there were enough satisfying moments to win me over. For instance, when Mrs. Weasely and Bellatrix duel; when Neville dispatches Nagini; Dumbledore and Harry’s final talk; and Harry’s chat with his son in the epilogue. (I maintain that it was the sleep deprivation that made tears come to my eyes during that last one.)
July 23rd, 2007 at 1:38 pm
“Because he was an anus.”
I just wanted to say that this statement, along with the pee column are two of the funniest things I have read in a long time. My high school students are rubbing off on me, because lately there is nothing more amusing to me than potty humor.
July 23rd, 2007 at 2:44 pm
As with seemingly everyone else, I read through the book quickly. In fact, I was ordered to so by my wife so that she could read it.
I thoroughly enjoyed the book. I was a little disappointed by the epilogue in that it was both uninformative and kind of Disney-movieish. I might be alone in this, but I figured people would want to know what sort of career path Harry ended up following. Luna became an important character, but her fate isn’t mentioned.
Many of my surmises and speculations were correct, which goes to show I read too much I guess.
I hope to be able to reread this at some point.
July 23rd, 2007 at 2:48 pm
After being vaguely disappointed with HBP, I thought this one was “bloody brilliant,” as Ron or Harry might say. VERY satisfied!!!!
July 23rd, 2007 at 3:19 pm
I’m just saying I’m on page 400 and not reading any of your comments and this is exactly why I’m avoiding near any conversations about Potter and my friends who are ahead of me and can’t stand not spoiling some of it for me and my daughter who read the ending already because she couldn’t stand not knowing and insists she still might not know how it ends.
Anyway, I look forward to reading your comments as soon as I can once again leave my job and snatch the book away from the apple of my eye.
July 23rd, 2007 at 8:14 pm
I quite enjoyed it. The epilogue was pretty underwhelming though. And I think the ending would have been stronger if Harry had avra kedavra’d Voldemort to kill him instead of just making his spell bounce back.
other than that i was satisfied with all the plot resolutions (which quite often went in different directions than I thought). so i give this book a big thumbs up
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:26 pm
I thought the entire series was lackluster, unimaginative, and predictable. Most overrated book series in the history of literature for sure.
And as to the ending of this series… chick flick much??
Congratulations to all you lemming-like Harry Potter fans for doing to this hack series what squealing juvenile girls did for *Titanic*: buying the hype and making it millions and millions of dollars that it never deserved.
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:31 pm
ClobberGirl makes an excellent point, kids: If you don’t like something, then the only possible explanation for other people liking it is that they fell victim to the hype. It can’t be that they actually, genuinely liked it. If it were actually good, then YOU would have liked it, right?
Remember that, you guys, next time you’re considering liking something. If it’s already pretty popular, you should probably think twice, because you’re probably just letting the hype get to you.
(Another good point: If you don’t like something, be sure to read all seven volumes of it!)
July 23rd, 2007 at 11:53 pm
Random thoughts:
Theories I Got Right: Snape’s unrequited love for Lily Potter, final showdown at Hogwarts, all of the Maruaders being killed, Harry not dying permanently
Theories I Got Wrong: Harry being a Horcrux (I didn’t believe it, after Rowling took pains to explain how Horcruxes are created in HBP), Hagrid surviving (I thought he’d be killed for sure), Lupin’s death not coming at the hands of Pettigrew (the silver hand and all that)
Things I’m Hoping For in the Movie: Alan Rickman getting a great death, the Lupin/Harry fight, Neville killing Nagini, Bellatrix getting hers
Oh, and I liked the Epilogue. It restated Rowling’s main themes (the power of choice, courage, loyalty) from the series and I think that was the point. I’ve already run into fans carping that Rowling didn’t answer the “important” questions in the Epilogue. Who cares what they all do for a living?
July 24th, 2007 at 7:27 am
I’ve never thought the series was what I’d consider “great literature”, and surely it was written at a middle-school reading level, but darn if I didn’t enjoy it overall.
Loved book 7 the most of the series.
I even cried a few times at the end, and I wasn’t expecting that at all. I think the movie will probably rock — I can see it fitting into 3 hours.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:55 am
I sort of agree with ClobberGirl, but more with RandyTayler. The series is overrated, but enjoyable. Frankly, I feel you could skip the first 500 pages of this last book and not lose anything. And the deaths felt obligatory, not dramatic. Hagrid should’ve died because if you skip everything he says or does after the first book, you lose nothing. And I was annoyed that they go out of there way to make the Tonks and Lupin thing work out, have a child, and then kill both of them off so the child is an orphan. It felt like cruelty for the sake of shocking the audience.
I will say there are so many coincidences in this series that it’s funny. “Hey, we need a Phoenix!” “Look, here’s a Phoenix.” “We need basilisk venom, or someone to cast a superpowerful curse to destroy this.” We need a goblin, look, here’s a goblin! We need the sorting hat because the sword likes to appear out of it, so isn’t it lucky that Vodly put it on Neville’s head? Isn’t it lucky that what they needed always arrived or appeared by super luck? And how to do make a Horcrux by accident? Why would Snape’s memories just flush out of his head like that? It seems more of the author needed something to happen and used magic as a cop-out (but not all the time, but enough times). That said, I still like it.
I loved the final fight and was moved by it. Mrs. Weasely was awesome, as was Kreacher, and Neville. It was great. Good ending to a good series.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:31 am
In response to ken’s comment, I’m glad Harry didn’t Avada Kedavra Voldemort. He never killed anyone. He never had to. Of course, there were myriad times when I thought, “JUST END IT!” because things would have been so much easier. Forget “Stupefy” and other such spells! It was frustrating, but he didn’t give in to killing, and I love that.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:36 am
I love reading the rantings of the people who feel they are “too cool for school.” They say that they hate Harry Potter and that the people who love it are sucked in by the hype or whatever. Well, congratufrickinlations. I hope you feel superior to all of the people who got so much enjoyment out of such an “overrated” and “lackluster, unimaginative, and predictable.” Were there any other things you wanted to try to ruin for the many people who enjoy them? Kittens, maybe? Puppies? The Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan? Weddings? Ice cream?
Personally, anything that I personally enjoy will continue to be enjoyable to me, whether or not someone wants to try to spoil things that other people enjoy so that everyone can be as depressed and “emo” as they themselves are.
July 24th, 2007 at 9:06 am
One of the questions I had while reading the book:
What were the Creevey’s doing at Hogwarts when Mudbloods were banned? Weren’t they Muggle-born?
July 24th, 2007 at 10:28 am
HA slobbergirl, you just got b-slapped by Eric.
July 24th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
I finished the book last night (it was a slow read, because my wife and I were reading it out loud together, while trying to keep our son who had the flu from vomiting on anything too expensive). My only complaint with the book was the question about Dumbledore’s character. Every time Harry worried about Dumbledore’s past, it felt like a distraction, because there was no way in hell that Rowling was going to make Dumbledore any less than he had appeared to be in the previous books. That being said, it was a much less annoying distraction than those in the previous books (full descriptions of quidditch games, anyone?), and over I loved the book.
My favorite image: the suits of armor/statues coming to the defense of Hogwarts.
Also, if anyone is looking for something to help them through the post-Potter depression, I’d check out the Bartimaeus Trilogy by Jonathan Stroud.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
The animated armor made me think of Bedknobs and Broomsticks.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:15 am
Eric sets an excellent example, kids. When you ask for opinions and someone expresses one that differs dramatically from yours, the only logical course of action is set up a strawman and attempt to belittle him or her! Nice try, Eric.
Or, if you’re six years old and/or lack Eric’s wit, you can be like corned_beef and find derogatory things their names rhyme with and go that route. Good one, corned_beef, Larry the Cable Guy was impressed.
There’s also the whining method, as AdamOndi said, “Were there any other things you wanted to try to ruin for the many people who enjoy them?” Well Adam, now that you mention it, I think you should know… there is no Santa Claus. Your parents lied to you. Hope your next Christmas is a pleasant one!
July 25th, 2007 at 12:37 am
ClobberGirl, the first two paragraphs in your first post were fine with me. To some extent I agreed. But then instead of settling on that, you go to the lemming card. In that last paragraph you sounded like the school kid whose sole reason for disliking something is that everyone else loved it.
I liked the series. That you consider me a lemming, well I’m sure that works for you. As for me, I think the author deserved every penny she got from me, so what do you care?
July 25th, 2007 at 1:40 am
We’re all entitled to our own opinions Steve. Maybe there are people out there who think the Spice Girls made their money because they were genuinely gifted and cutting-edge musicians. Maybe there are people out there who think Ryan Seacrest has a job because he’s talented and funny. Maybe there are people out there who think Titanic really was the best picture that year. But my opinion is that it was the hype that did all those things, not talent. They are/were popular because some studio executive somewhere decided they were going to be popular, and it was pushed and drummed into people’s minds until people bought into it, thus the mediocre became the amazing. And yeah, that reminds me a lot of lemmings. Harry Potter falls into that group for me.
That doesn’t mean (re: Eric’s strawman) that every time large groups of people like something I don’t, I think it’s about hype. Plenty of stuff out there I dislike that other people adore, and I can see why people like it even if I don’t. Seinfeld, Kingdom Hearts 2, enhancement shamans, watermelon-flavored candy…
I’m just kidding. Nobody likes enhancement shamans.
You wanna give your money to JK Rowling, I don’t care. Hell, buy a Spice Girls CD while you’re at it, complete the set.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:53 am
All this strawmen talk makes me want some Pixie Stix. Mmmmm…straw-y goodness…
July 25th, 2007 at 8:55 am
I do have sympathy for ClobberGirl. I had the audacity to say that HP was overrated and the last book would have to be crammed with quests up the wazoo because of all the stuff that had to happen (and I feel I was right). My opinion was quickly attacked without mercy and everybody treated me like crap for it. It is strange how when Eric says Wild Hogs is crap (which I agree with), then anyone who says it was good is dumb. People who disagree about Transformers are treated similarly. We all have opinions, and I personally believe that in 10-20 years nobody is going to treat HP like society treats LoTR. It’s a fun little fad, but it’s not sacred or even that good. Hey, I like the Resident Evil movies and Mortal Kombat. I’m entitled to like things that have flaws, even major flaws. I’m just not so caught up that I can’t admit that it is flawed.
I like Harry Potter; it’s enjoyable. But it’s not as good as the hype. The last book wasn’t that enjoyable until the last 200 or so pages. I can name a dozen other authors who I feel are superior to Rowling. Even big fans admit that parts of the book, like the forest part, seemed drawn out and boring (I thought the Dursley part was meaningless and annoying, as was the wedding prep). Getting most of the Horcruxes wasn’t suspenseful because they had to get 5 before the end of the book and then have the final battle, along with adding additional quests/mysteries that you knew had to get resolved soon. It felt crammed. However, the last fight was great and engaging.
July 25th, 2007 at 8:55 am
ClobberGirl, I don’t think you can call Eric’s post a “strawman” when it is based exactly on what you said. If you really don’t think that everyone who liked the Harry Potter series did so because they are “lemming-like” and they “[bought] the hype,” you shouldn’t have said what you said in a way that made that the most logical inference. If you DO really believe that, then your later statement of “We’re all entitled to our own opinions” rings false.
And you can’t blame AdamOndi or corned_beef for being a little upset with your post. After all, this is a thread about people who read the entire 759-page book in the first couple days it was released. You surely knew that it was intended for fans of the series, and you can surely understand how people would be upset by someone who, apparently, spent the time and money to quickly read through the book just to see how much she hated it.
Eric’s response surely had nothing to do with the fact that he disagrees with you. It was all about the arrogant, pompous, snobby way you criticized every single person who liked the books — especially with how silly it is that you really did read all seven books of the “most overrated book series in the history of literature.”
July 25th, 2007 at 10:25 am
I also think Eric’s reply was not strawman, because it was based on what you specifically said.
Nonetheless I have to acknowledge that perhaps I am one of the lemmings ClobberGirl refers to. I’ll sometimes plunk down money for things I wouldn’t otherwise care about just because there is a lot of hype going on. I was not immediately drawn to the Potter series. One of my bosses loved it, so I thought I’d give it a whirl. I liked it and thought I’d finish it, but I wasn’t hooked yet.
One thing I think worth mentioning is that when the Potter series began, its chief audience was kids. My daughter, now 9, started getting into the stories a couple years ago and I decided to pick up the books again. Besides the fact that I like the stories themselves, I kind of enjoy being part of a shared experience. When I went to the first showing of the latest film, part of my motivation was to be there with the real fans. That had its annoying moments, such as when the women behind me were fawning over the giant, but overall it was a hoot.
So yes, there is some lemming quality to my affection to the Potter series, though I think the fact my daughter got into it was a bigger factor. I also think “lemming” is a bit much. Lemmings supposedly follow each other off cliffs. There’s no damage in following the crowd on this one, unless you’re a Jesus Camp person.
That said, I think there is a lot Rowling does well. The fact that the teens, while wizards, demonstrate real teen characteristics is refreshing. They’re not superheroes. They’re frightened with what they choose to do, even as they’re committed to it. Harry is often unlikeable and you get sympathy for Draco. Loose ends tie up. Actions that are frustrating, such as Harry not using the killing curse, get explained. A seeming inconsequential campaign for elves becomes relevant. I could have taken or left the epilogue, except for the one detail that he gave his one kid the middle name Severus and said what he did. That part was money.
Overall, though, I think this series hit it big because a few key kids got turned on by it, and other kids got into it because they wanted to be part of the shared phenomenom. Rowling got lucky. She did good work, but she’s also a reflection that society doesn’t reward (i.e. pay) people what they’re worth. Of course there are better writers and better stories out there. Somehow this one stuck. And in the end, I got my 21 bucks worth.
July 25th, 2007 at 10:38 am
I guess I did infer that ClobberGirl thinks people liking things she doesn’t like is ALWAYS a case of lemmingism/falling victim to hype, when all she said was that this was the case with Harry Potter. I shouldn’t have extrapolated it to everything else, too. Presumably there are other things she doesn’t like that are popular for legitimate reasons, i.e., where people actually like them.
You people who like Harry Potter, though: Quit fooling yourselves! Stupid lemmings….
July 25th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
Oh God, I’ve run into so many ClobberGirls in my time, particularly at college. Mine was apparently a breeding pool of that snobby cultural elitist attitude, where disdain is the only acceptable response to anything popular. If so many people are enjoying it, it obviously can’t have any redeeming merit. What a hoot. Enjoy that self-importance.
Eric crax me up. Damn it, we are such lemming IDIOTS!!!
July 25th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Incidentally I really liked the book. You have to give JKR credit, has there EVER been more anticipation for a book, with such huge expectations? Every possible plot permutation analzyed to death… If ever a situation set up for the most grandiose “choke” of all time…… this was it. I was extremely impressed that she was able to tie everything together and STILL manage a surprise or two. I admit, lemming that I am, I bought it hook-line-and-sinker that Harry had to die. I couldn’t believe she was going there, but at the same time I thought–but it make so much sense–it HAS to be this way. Nicely done. And the scene where Snape tells Harry—look at me—-his memories flowing out like blood…. wow.
July 25th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
Oh yeah, I bought in the “he has to die” thing too.
Sucker!
July 25th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
Eric said, “Presumably there are other things she doesn’t like that are popular for legitimate reasons, i.e., where people actually like them. ”
I see. So if lots and lots of people like a film or book, said film or book must be a carefully crafted work of genius. Thank you, Eric, for clearing that up. Why did you make fun of all those Nickelback and Titanic fans again?
My attitude towards and treatment of Harry Potter fans hasn’t been any different then the treatment Eric has given other subjects. Pompous, snobby, arrogant? Um, might want to do a little perusing of the site you’re reading and some of the popular subjects Eric has made fun of. I’m certainly not as clever or witty as Eric, but if making fun of a popular phenomenon is automatically elitist and snobby, then yeah, I’m guilty as charged, and really don’t mind. Oh and corned_beef: if you had problems with elitists in college, it’s probably because it doesn’t take much to be more elitest than name-calling.
Finally, might I point out that the reason people like me say the things we say is, we really do feel that way about the Harry Potter series, and more importantly, you Harry Potter folks are just too easy. You have all these buttons that just scream “push me.” Point out the flaws and banality of your beloved highly commercialized kiddie series and you automatically get defensive and indigant and start hissing like wet kittens. You act like we’ve insulted your religion–only it’s not your religion, which makes your indignation even funnier! It’s just too good to pass up.
So please, keep the personal attacks and whining about how I somehow ruined the series for you coming. “No you fools… you’re only giving her what she wants!”
July 25th, 2007 at 8:51 pm
I apologize for calling you slobber.
NOW will you please leave the thread and let us enjoy our beloved highly commercialized kiddie series?
July 25th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
Eric said, “Presumably there are other things she doesn’t like that are popular for legitimate reasons, i.e., where people actually like them. �
I see. So if lots and lots of people like a film or book, said film or book must be a carefully crafted work of genius.
Wow. That’s a remarkably bad interpretation of what I said. How does “people actually like it” translate into “it must be a carefully crafted work of genius”?
We’re talking about two different things here. It’s one thing to say, “If you like Harry Potter, you must have bad taste (which really just means ‘taste that is different from mine’),” or “it must be because you haven’t read very many other books,” or “you just haven’t exposed to enough great literature.” That’s one thing.
It’s quite another thing to say, “If you like Harry Potter, it’s only because you’ve bought into the hype and you’re going with the crowd like a bunch of lemmings.” What, isn’t it possible that those people ACTUALLY like it, independently of the hype? With “you have bad taste” at least you’re allowing that the fans actually do like the thing, even if you think they’d like it less if they had more great works to compare it to. With the hype/lemmings philosophy, they don’t even REALLY like it. They’ve just convinced themselves they like it so they can be part of the crowd.
I don’t think anyone has a problem with you pointing out the flaws and banality of the Harry Potter series. They’ll disagree with you, sure, but that’s OK. It’s only when you imply that the reason people like it is that they’ve drunk the Kool-Aid and fallen victim to groupthink that they get indignant. People genuinely LIKE the series. If that makes them philistines who just don’t know any better, fine. But at least allow for the possibility that they DO actually like it on its own merits.
July 26th, 2007 at 2:29 am
Eric said, “Wow. That’s a remarkably bad interpretation of what I said.”
It was meant to be, as I felt your comments were remarkably bad extrapolations of what I said. Now I think we’re seeing more eye to eye. I hereby redefine my position: I think there are lots and lots of people out there who like Harry Potter because they bought into the hype, but I accept that there are people out there who would like the series regardless.
All better?
corned_beef said, “I apologize for calling you slobber.”
Accepted, and I will leave you on this note: I actually thought the third book in the series was really good. It avoided most of the cliques that quickly became staples of the series, and I thought it was clever that she was able to work a time-travel story into a market that is generally tired of them. I admit it, I cheered when Hermione punched Draco, and Lupin was probably my favorite character in the series. If the rest of the series had been as good as the third book, the series as a whole would have deserved every bit of hype and praise it got… but, we all know how I feel about that.
Take care HP fans.
July 26th, 2007 at 7:57 am
ClobberGirl,
By what mystical power have you been able to trick yourself into believing that you are above the rest of the Harry Potter lemmings? From my understanding of your posts, you have not only read the entire series, but you were able to post your final summation of the overall insipidness of said series on July 23. I can only believe, then, that you must have purchased, borrowed, stolen, or in some other way obtained a copy of the final book and read it within approximately 48 hours (give or take a few hours). I know devoted fans of Potter et al. who didn’t accomplish that feat.
So, please to explain how you justify labeling some Potter fans hype-driven lemmings while maintaining that you, who did exactly what many of said lemmings did, somehow remained untainted by the hype. To paraphrase Forrest Gump—and very appropriately it seems: Lemming is as lemming does. But I await your correction.
September 20th, 2007 at 5:03 am
John Doe; spot on. Harry Potter is not the greatest thing to ever happen to the fantast genre but it was mildly entertaining. personally, i think boks 1-3 were really good and i enjoyed them in much the same way i still enjoy re-reading most kids books. after that JKR seems to have sacked her editor and started rambling away a bit. Deathly Hallows was better than the three books preceding i must admit. though why they had to run around seeking horcruxes when Dumbledore’s portrait could have told them where to look is beyond me. (that is of course going on the premise that the portraits could do all JKR claimed they could do)