Negative ‘Dark Knight’ reviews bring out people’s Joker-like tendencies
At the moment, 37 reviews of “The Dark Knight” have been linked at Rotten Tomatoes, most of them ecstatic. But four are negative, and this does not sit well with some of the movie’s most ardent supporters — most of whom, I should point out, have not actually seen the movie yet.
And since RT has a useless system that allows people to comment on reviews — or, more often, on the one-sentence excerpts from those reviews that are quoted on RT — we are able to peer into the dark, terrifying minds of some of the Internet’s most mentally unstable anonymous cowards.
You’re probably thinking that people’s reactions are along the lines of “You suck!” or “You don’t know what you’re talking about!” But no. It is worse than that. Feel free to have a quick look at the comments posted on any of these four reviews: David Denby, The New Yorker; David Edelstein, New York Magazine; David Fear, Time Out New York; Marshall Fine, Star Magazine.
(It is a curious coincidence that all four negative reviews are from New York critics, and that three of the critics are named David. However, other New York critics have written positive reviews, and so have other Davids.)
Here’s a sampling of people’s responses to these pans:
he’s not just gay, he’s piss-filled *** bag.
Look at his ugly *** face. Just by looking at it you can tell this guy has no life and craves attention
You do not deserve to live.
As Morgan Freeman would say, “Shoot this mother******”
go grow some balls then chop them off cuz you don’t deserve to be a man.
**** you David Denby. I hope you die.
**** this guy. They should take away his reviewing credentials. Thanks for ruining the 100% streak this film had going, douchebag.
Go eat penis you ****ing homo, I hope your boyfriend in New York gives you AIDS
These people will be sitting next to you when you go see “The Dark Knight” this weekend.
My friend Eugene Novikov summarized the phenomenon in a post at Cinemtical (aptly titled “What’s with the Psychopaths on Rotten Tomatoes?”) in which he asks this:
Who are these people? I know plenty of geeks, and none of them would ever go on the internet to yell “f*** you!” at David Edelstein — at least I don’t think so. Would they? Are these perfectly nice individuals who take advantage of internet anonymity to vent their spleen? Who gets this profanely, inarticulately angry at negative reviews of a movie they haven’t even seen yet?
This bears emphasizing. Getting upset over the mere existence of an opinion with which you disagree is a sign of emotional immaturity, plain and simple. But when you’re getting mad about a review of a movie that you haven’t even seen yet — that’s off the charts. That’s alarming. That’s something you need to have checked out by a professional.
The really fascinating part for me comes in the comments on Eugene’s post. Check out comment #6, where someone named Adrian Conlon — which appears to be his real name, so I’ll give him credit for that — tries to defend and justify himself as one of the angry Rotten Tomatoes posters:
I am one of thoses geeks you are refering to and I admit sometimes I do go too far like today when i read the first negative reviews of the Dark Knight i became very frustrated because i have seen the film and consider it to be a masterpiece and commented on impulse to let the reviewer know what i thought even though he most likely will never read it but I would never wish any ill will on him or anyone else but sometimes when you love something so much you want to fight for it. I know that sounds crazy but thats how passionate I and others feel although I do not condone threating people that takes it too far but i lie in the middle. I will let them know what I think
I mean It would be different if we were talking about a crap film like Batman and Robin you would not get this reaction because everyone hated it even the fanboys but if you were like me and others alike then you would know that this film was gonna be amazing long before it came out. I know thats hard for a lot of people to understand but we knew just like we knew Batman and Robin was gonna flop.
I mean one of the reviewers called Nolan a hack who could not shoot action I felt insulted and frustrated and know i shouldn’t because it’s aimed at Nolan not me but I can’t help it it felt like it was at me.
Also it seems as though a group of New York critics have banded together to bash the film fo no reason whats so ever other than it;s too dark and grim well maybe they should go watch Mamma Mia instead.
I know am such a big geek but guess what? You may think I’m a loser but look I have a great social life and party nightly in Soho in London, A beautiful girlfriend, and a great family I could not be happier so I think if you label us all geeks who never leave their room then you are never gonna understand.
So there you have it. By the way, here’s a sampling of what Adrian posted at Rotten Tomatoes:
You live in La La land my friend and have no place calling Nolan a hack you HACK SELL OUT.
I think your just pissed off because everyone who seen it loves it and everyone who has hasn’t knows they are gonna love it (well anyone with taste that is).
Sorry in my opinion that is not a reasonable review it’s like people have said he went in already with an opinion and came out with the same [Isn't that what you did, too, though?] so to me that doesn’t sound like a fair review and yeah calling people names does take it to far but we are film fanatics who are passionate and feel the need to stand up to people like this. ["People like this" being "people who wrote negative reviews."]
[He posted this one four times, on each of the four negative reviews:]
Look I have seen the film and it is a masterpiece period. I’m not a fanboy but I love cinema and think that these critics from New York have decided to band together and bash the film to see what kind of response they would get. In my opinion they are talking out of their ***’s and simply have no taste if thats what they really think but don’t pay any attention to these haters cuz thats what they want to do. Yes this film is dark and grim. So if thats too much for you maybe you should go see Mamma Mia instead.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:51 am
Great Geeks, Batman! I guess we all have our own beloved films/directors/franchises we all get obsessed with and defend to the death, but there is a deep end, and they’ve dove right in.
July 16th, 2008 at 1:15 am
Curious. This makes the third article I’ve read in the last 24 hours or so decrying the vitriol of internet commenters.
First, there was this spot entitled “Post Apocalypse” in Time magazine: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1821646,00.html
Then there was this Screwtape Letters-style article in the Mormon Times section of the Deseret News: http://mormontimes.com/DB_index.php?id=1527
And now this.
Is it a sign of a trend, perhaps?
July 16th, 2008 at 4:45 am
You’d better be careful, Eric. I think if you give this film anything less than than your first ever A+, people will flip!
I love how one guy referred to the film’s “100% streak”, as if it was going to stay that way. No wide release movie will ever again garner a perfect score on Rotten Tomatoes, because so many reviews get posted, someone out there is bound not to like it, no matter how much of a masterpiece everyone else thinks it is.
I get the feeling that “The Dark Knight” will ultimately score lower than other superhero films like “Iron Man” and the “Spiderman” films, simply because of its darker nature. I can also see where some critics may view the melodramatic content and running length as pretentious.
Rest assured, Batman fans. This movie will clean up at the box office, make many critics’ “Top 10 Movies of ’08″ lists, and may earn a few oscar nominations as well.
Can’t wait!
Eric, you better have your review up tomorrow, and it had better be good, lest you be deemed a piss-filled ***bag!
July 16th, 2008 at 5:25 am
Those people won’t be sitting next to *me*. I’m from the Midwest. We don’t talk all nasty like that here.
July 16th, 2008 at 6:14 am
I think it is funny that Mr. Conlon still sounded very inarticulate and grammatically confusing in his explanation. I understand caring about something, but why attack those who disagree. It is just a movie, and if you are vehemently attacking a reviewer who gives the movie a bad review, especially if you use personal attacks, you are unhinged. It is actually being beyond a fanboy. What I find most disturbing is that he thinks it is okay to dislike a movie that everyone dislikes, but not okay to dislike a movie that people love. Isn’t the point of reviewers to give their opinion, and don’t they have the right to that opinion. Maybe these people need to actually read the reviews, see what the arguments are, and then decide. It reminds me of what you (Eric D Snider) put up with over Transformers and Titanic.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:15 am
I don’t find the comments on Rotten Tomatoes disturbing at all. On the contrary, I thoroughly enjoyed reading these venom-filled posts. Seriously, it was hilarious (or should it be “hilariously, it was serious”?)
The best posts come from the tongue-in-cheekers who prophesy impending doom on all negative reviewers. “You’re gonna get it now! The fanboys are gonna eat you alive! Count this the beginning of your demise!”
Good entertainment right there.
July 16th, 2008 at 7:53 am
All I can think of when I read comments like that on the Internet is…
http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ethugbf3.jpg
July 16th, 2008 at 8:27 am
I hate that kinds of ****ing commenters THEY SUCK! They don’t even know enough to be COMMENTING!!!!
I hope that the every negatove person who leaves a negutiv comment about a negative reveiw of Batman gets waterboarded, but insted of water, they uze wood glue!!
***!! Wargle Blah angry grr grr blebble ****ing ****ers bleck!!
(This is not an actual comment. This is only a dramatization of an actual comment)
July 16th, 2008 at 9:02 am
Heh – the New Yorker trashed Iron Man.
Isn’t it enough for enough people to like the movie that you’re looking forward to? Does anything less than universal acclaim threaten your future enjoyment of the film? Fanboys – bleh!
July 16th, 2008 at 9:03 am
I work for an online video rental/download store (think Xbox.) We have been dealing with vitriolic obsessed fanboys about this movie for months. On the forums, there is a six-page forum topic, with posts almost entirely from a single person complaining because we didn’t have the trailer for the movie on our service. He even admits that he has seen it several dozen times on the web, but he wanted it on his Xbox too.
The problem is that these 30-year old men who still live with in their parents’ basements and work at Burger King have dedicated their lives to the pursuit of a fictional character. Being told that a movie about said character isn’t very good is like being told that your life’s work is worthless.
I admit, I’m a sci-fi/fantasy nerd. I’ll probably go see Batman (but not this weekend). I’ll probably even enjoy it. But man, am I glad I never became a comic junkie. Those people are just scary.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:08 am
Holy run-on sentence, Batman!
I’ve seen the movie (I work for a theatre), and it’s very good. I can understand where some of the criticism is coming from, though. But then again, I’m not a Batman fan, per se.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:10 am
Marge: There’s a man here who says he can help you.
Homer: Is it Batman?
Marge: He’s a scientist.
Homer: Batman’s a scientist.
Marge: It’s not Batman!
Anyway, I digress. This is a great post (and great picture choice), those comments are off the charts. How can people behave like that? Holy guacamole. At the end of the day, however well-done it is, however good a film it is, it’s a film about a BAT MAN. I repeat: About a BAT MAN. Even if it doesn’t have the word “Batman” in the title.
The people posting these comments are disturbed, misfit teenage (I hope) boys, probably leading miserable, desperate, frustrated lives in which the impending new Batman film is the sole ray of light. They can’t stand people criticising the Batman because Batman is all they have. It’s sacred to them, the only important thing in their lives. To them, dissing the bat-dude is blasphemy. Criticising the Batman is a battable offense. (If you’ll pardon the expression.)
I don’t get all the Batman fuss, perhaps it’s because I don’t live in the US, I don’t know. But according to the IMDB user ratings, “Batman Begins” is the 101st best film of all time. My reaction: What?
I’m now going to stop writing because I’ve written the word “Batman” too many times, and it’s a silly word which I don’t like to confront myself with. Batman Batman Batman. But one final thought: surely everyone is piss-filled to some extent at some point during the day?
Ryan: Very funny!
July 16th, 2008 at 9:17 am
4 stars from Ebert…woohoo!
Take that, you doody-headed New York reviewers! Do you have a star on the Walk of Fame? Hah! Didn’t think so.
July 16th, 2008 at 9:54 am
Clumpy: “Isn’t it enough for enough people to like the movie that you’re looking forward to? Does anything less than universal acclaim threaten your future enjoyment of the film?”
I would take that a step further. What if nobody liked the movie? How would that in any way affect your ability to enjoy it? It wouldn’t. Every critic — heck, every person — in the world could think it’s terrible and you would still be able to love it. It really should make no difference at all to these people.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:45 am
While the existance of negative review of a movie don’t bother me, I’ve found that reading a negative review of a movie I’m excited about will affect my enjoyment of the movie once I actually see it. However, this just might be because the movie wasn’t as good as I thought it was going to be, and I would have disliked it no matter what. Or, it could be that I’m just a weak willed individual, and my opinions can be swayed by well-written criticism. More often I find that I agree with the points of the critique, but I like the movie anyways.
Side note, it looks like one of the commentators can’t tell Morgan Freeman from Samuel L. Jackson.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:52 am
“I’ve found that reading a negative review of a movie I’m excited about will affect my enjoyment of the movie once I actually see it.”
PATIENT: Doctor, it hurts when I do this.
DOCTOR: Then don’t do that.
July 16th, 2008 at 10:52 am
>>As Morgan Freeman would say, “Shoot this mother******”
Morgan Freeman?
I think they’re confusing him with the guy who flies with snakes.
July 16th, 2008 at 11:24 am
Eric, thanks for ruining the 0% streak that “Yours, Mine, & Ours” had going on Rotten Tomatoes. They should take away your movie reviewing credentials. [Insert profane, over-the-top, anatomically explicit threat here.]
July 16th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Niall: “At the end of the day, however well-done it is, however good a film it is, it’s a film about a BAT MAN. I repeat: About a BAT MAN.”
Perhaps you need some clarification, being an overseas resident and all.
The Batman of “The Dark Knight”, or any other Batman movie, is a normal human who dresses up as a bat, which is perfectly plausable in my opinion. He’s not a half-man, half-bat, as you clearly believe he is. That would just be ridiculous.
I think such a title would be written “Bat-Man”, or “Bat/Man”, or even “Bat*Man/2″.
— end sarcasm –
July 16th, 2008 at 11:42 am
Concerning the Morgan Freeman/Samuel L. Jackson mix-up: despite the prevalence of Jackson’s profanity, that’s actually a quote from Freeman in Wanted.
Now, about the crazy-profane posters, I must unhappily disagree with the generalization that all of them are either teenage boys or basement-dwellers. My fear is that the anonymous nature and ease of posting comments leads those who in other situations conceal their immaturity to spout off without fear of any social repercussions. It seems to be a phenomenon akin to venting your violent tendencies through playing Halo — a sort of fantasy I’d-never-be-like-this-in-real-life acting out — except in this case, real people read and are affected by their words. It’s become an outlet for all our uglies that we’d normally keep to ourselves. Shy of forcing posters to use their real names and post their email addresses publicly, I don’t see any solution.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
You realize by trying to be cute and raise the ire of fans with a fake tagline for a negative review that you’re no better than the anonymous foulmouthed posters on Rottentomatoes. I’ve contacted Rottemtomatoes and given ample explanation that you’re review is a farce and shouldn’t be included in the critics section.
Cheers
July 16th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
“You realize by trying to be cute and raise the ire of fans with a fake tagline for a negative review that you’re no better than the anonymous foulmouthed posters on Rottentomatoes.”
Except that I’m neither anonymous nor foul-mouthed, nor vitriolic or spiteful, nor quick to become furious over trivial things. But otherwise, yes, a perfect analogy.
He refers to this, by the way, and he’s late to the game, as RT took the quote down a couple hours ago.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
As much as I think I’ll enjoy “The Dark Knight,” even to the point of watching it more than once (I saw “Batman Begins” three times), I don’t think it’ll come close to “Redbelt,” the character drama by David Mamet, the ending of which left me speechless and near tears.
“Dark Knight” will kick ***, and I hope it breaks all sorts of records.
Critics’ reviews do not determine box office success. If they did, Adam Sandler and Will Farrell would be out of work.
July 16th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
“The world is wondering who bought you off along with the rest of the hack New York anti-TDK critics. ”
“New York anti-TDK critics.” That’s awesome.
July 16th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
I think it is valid to say that criticism can affect how you view a film, a restaurant, a date, etc. I believe that I have often been less enthused and more likely to criticize a person, movie, etc, based on someone’s view that I trust.
July 16th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
I think an old Penny Arcade strip about the power of posting on the internet anonymously applies here. Anyone remember the URL of the strip?
July 16th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
While all the complaining about critics who gave the movie a negative review is silly, I fully support anyone who wants to complain about Armond White’s review. But that’s only because he appears to be a nut with an agenda, and is not just reviewing the movie based on its own merits. He goes on an on about Nolan’s hipster nihilism, and how he’s pandering to teenagers and such. So, please, bash away at him.
July 16th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Eric, I swear to God, this had better not be your way of preparing us for a negative review.
July 16th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
There was a funny Penny Arcade comic about this very issue, it had to do with fanboys bickering over game systems, throwing out lots of foul language and poorly worded ideas (nearly all in caps). My favorite bit from it was the first line addressed to another forum poster…
“F*** YOU F***ER!!!!”
I don’t know why, but that just cracks me up.
Unfortunately, I have chosen to waste my time every once in a while surfing the comments on Rottentomatoes, sometimes for laughs, oftentimes out of sheer disbelief. I should also mention to check out the comments at politico.com (or any political/news site really), for the gigantic level of stupidity on display, I would award it to those posters (merely because of their obnoxious use of cut/paste)
July 16th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
@Matt:
“The problem is that these 30-year old men who still live with in their parents’ basements and work at Burger King have dedicated their lives to the pursuit of a fictional character. Being told that a movie about said character isn’t very good is like being told that your life’s work is worthless.”
I’ve never been able to verbalize this before myself, but I think it’s true. We saw the same thing a couple of years ago when a reviewer gave some new Zelda game an 88 percent (the nerve!). Fanboys, worried that they might not be having as much fun as they think they are, took to the net in droves to call for his execution. Being unable to tell that a 9 is the number right next to 10.
It’s probably the same reason that uptight people get their shorts in a bundle when an adaptation fails to live up to the original version. In my mind, the Hitchhiker’s Guide film will always be a load of schlocky crap, not necessarily because it’s worse than any other Disney releases, or because they changed things, but because the spirit of the original work was so different. Allowing myself to admit that the movie itself isn’t that bad taken as an isolated product pretty much squelched what fanboyism I had.
July 16th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
@Eric:
“I would take that a step further. What if nobody liked the movie? How would that in any way affect your ability to enjoy it? It wouldn’t. Every critic — heck, every person — in the world could think it’s terrible and you would still be able to love it. It really should make no difference at all to these people.”
Yeah – on a personal level, that’s pretty much the way I roll. The exception is with series’ or films that I wish to be financially successful, such as Hellboy or anything by Joss Whedon. I root for those numbers to go up, though I recognize my personal involvement in the process means nothing, much like our system of elections. Zing!
July 16th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
I usually find that the more a critic hates a movie, the more I like it. That’s not to say that there haven’t been movies that I completely agree with the reviewer on, but I’d say that 8 out of 10 movies with a bad review, are ones that I pretty much liked. But I have to admit that I love it when the geeks come out of the woodwork…….makes you appreciate that you have a life!!!
(although I post here…..does that make me a geek?)
July 17th, 2008 at 1:38 am
@Marc/ John Ellis
I don’t think this is the strip to which Marc was referring, but I am positive it’s the one John was talking about. Be warned, there is language of the profane variety, which, I suppose, given the subject, is only appropriate.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/
July 17th, 2008 at 6:22 am
I have to admit, thinking about it, that when I read a lot of negative or even so-so reviews about a movie I was really excited about, I get disappointed – not because it was negatively reviewed, but because I was hoping the movie was going to be better than that. I felt that way about Stardust. I enjoyed the movie, but was sad that it wasn’t as good as it could have been.
July 17th, 2008 at 9:19 am
I think an old Penny Arcade strip about the power of posting on the internet anonymously applies here. Anyone remember the URL of the strip?
You mean this one?
July 17th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
I was also amazed by the comments on “Wall-E.” It seemed so weird that people were threatening all sorts of death and mishap to come to the negative reviewers of a Pixar family film.