More evidence that a lot of ‘Dark Knight’ fans are a-holes
We’ve already amply covered the subject of negative reviews of “The Dark Knight” being attacked by the movie’s fans (or pre-fans, since most of them hadn’t yet seen it when they went ballistic). But it turns out you can write a glowing, extremely positive review and still upset some of the fanboys!
Here is an e-mail I got yesterday from an anonymous person. His or her — oh heck, let’s assume it’s a guy — e-mail address contains “86,” which usually suggests the year of birth, and the word “kelly.” So it’s probably a 22-year-old guy named Kelly. At any rate, this is what he said:
I have an objection to your superficial and colorless description of the Joker as “the devil.” [Actually, I said he's like the devil.] How very lazy it was for you to make that comparison.
“The devil” is bad. “God” is good. This is the agreed-upon standard. So if the Joker is the devil, then is Batman God? [He would be if he were the opposite of the Joker -- which I said specifically in my review that he is not.] Hardly. This movie is not about good versus evil. If it was, “The Dark Knight” would not be so wonderfully layered. This movie is about order verses disorder, justice verses the random. Therefore to express the “evil” of the Joker by comparing him to “the devil” is simply a tired, worn, bland simile.
Similar to the above point, the Joker does not “want people to delight in chaos.” He does not want people to do anything. He has no plan. He has no motive. He is insanity incarnate. The movie makes this point very obvious. You just as obviously missed it.
Finally, your comment that the Joker was more like the Emperor than Darth Vader was jarring and out-of-place. How is the Joker at all like the Emperor? Star Wars? Not the best comparison.
In conclusion, your review was a disappointment. Please go back to Eng Lit and read up on some archetypes. The Joker is an enormously popular, wonderfully complex archetype. You would have done well to have learned that before you watched “The Dark Knight.”
Sincerely yours in criticism,
Batman Fan
I didn’t reply to him because I don’t reply to anonymous people. (My parenthetical clarifications above are there because surely one of you who read the review more carefully than he did was going to point them out anyway.) And also because what would be the point? We disagree on some aspects of the “point” that the film makes “very obvious,” but I suspect he would say that this is only because I didn’t watch the film carefully enough. Obviously, someone who knows what he’s talking about will agree with “Batman Fan” in every particular.
July 23rd, 2008 at 10:54 am
He’s not mad about the joker thing, he’s mad that you gave it an A- instead of an A+++++++++ and just needed a reason to be mad so he could write a letter.
July 23rd, 2008 at 11:42 am
I couldn’t agree more without hurting myself
July 23rd, 2008 at 11:43 am
I see some similarities between Batman and Jesus, though. He holds true to an uncompromisable value set, and must sacrifice himself for the good of Gotham. He is forced to live outside of the society in which he lives, in the world but not of it. Etc.
July 23rd, 2008 at 11:46 am
…also, the cape. Jesus wears a cape, right? If not, he probably should. Capes are awesome.
July 23rd, 2008 at 11:47 am
The Joker very clearly -does- have a plan and -does- want people to do his whims. Did this e-mail writer just take everything the bad guy said at face value?
(He’s probably one of those people who roots for Syndrome while watching ‘The Incredibles’.)
July 23rd, 2008 at 11:50 am
I love the parting shot of “go back to Eng Lit” and then, just following that, “enormously popular.” Like that matters! Eric, I’m sorry you have to deal with crap like that, good thing you’re thick skinned. =)
July 23rd, 2008 at 12:11 pm
“He does not want people to do anything. He has no plan. He has no motive.”
That doesn’t make any sense to me, as EVERY single one of the Joker’s schemes would take an extremely large amount of planning. I would list some examples, but anyone who has seen the movie can probably already think of several very complicated plots perpetrated by the Joker and his men during the film. A friend and I decided after the movie that The Joker has no plan, but not having a plan takes an awful lot of planning.
July 23rd, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Okay seriously, John Ellis, who DOESN’T root for Syndrome? He’s awesome.
Back to the letter, obviously the Joker wants people to do stuff. What about the “social experiment” with the ferries? Oh, I’m sure that no planning went into THAT, though.
July 23rd, 2008 at 12:31 pm
The letter is just odd–why all the malice? He could have just as easily written a letter noting some points of disagreement he had with the review without all the cheap shots. No need to be a jerk about it.
July 23rd, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Those of us who object to Syndrome’s habit of murdering, murdering, then murdering some more?
Plus, the whole willing to kill children/ attempting to kindnap and brainwash an innocent baby/ taunting those who are shocked and repelled by that sort of thing…
He’s a major example of what TV Tropes aptly calls misaimed fandom. To make him admirable, one has to ignore pretty much everything he does to achieve his goals while taking half of what he says at face value. Whee!
July 23rd, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Um, we do know this is a MOVIE….these are not real people… Seriously people, Batman was great movie with out the “shove in your face” CG antics that the Heads think we want to see on every screen. I am glad Eric posted that retort the A-hole posted in reply to his review. It goes to prove that some of us have way to much time on our hands.
July 23rd, 2008 at 1:20 pm
I have to completely disagree with you here, Eric. I think that was a girl.
July 23rd, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Yes, Zimm, Jesus wears a cape. If you doubt that fact, just look at one of those Harry Anderson paintings and you’ll see that the cape is tied at the throat (rather than attached to the shoulders), which makes one wonder how it remains intact when Jesus flies through the air. Wouldn’t all that flapping cause a choking sensation?
July 23rd, 2008 at 1:56 pm
I don’t think there’s a more asexual name than Kelly.
July 23rd, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Definitely!
hehehe
July 23rd, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Asexual, eh? So you’re saying we can rip Kelly’s arm off and a new Kelly will grow from it?
Anyway, people like the letter writer above are so dumb. What is the point of writing things like that anyway? Does s/he think s/he’ll make Eric feel stupid and so then he’ll change his review? Does s/he think he’ll go into his room and cry? I don’t get it.
July 23rd, 2008 at 2:36 pm
I don’t get it either. These people suck the fun out of everything. Except guessing their genders. That’s always fun!
July 23rd, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Quetzal – right now, I am your number one fan.
July 23rd, 2008 at 5:10 pm
If anyone wants to see how stupid Batman fans really are, check out this news article from Eric’s former stomping ground of Salt Lake City:
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=3830210
Please be advised that not all Utahns are this stupid (nor are all Batman fans).
July 23rd, 2008 at 5:21 pm
There’s no way that was a girl. I’m the only girl I know who likes Batman that much. And if that was a girl, I feel sad, because it would be a fellow chick-who-likes-comics yet I could never bring myself to be friends with someone that dumb.
No, I think this was a fanboy, case dismissed.
And if there are any other girls out there who like Batman, well, you have my information. I’d like to have an argument about who would win in a fight, Batman or Superman, with someone other than my husband.
July 23rd, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Is random the opposite of justice? Three years at law school and I never learned that. I want a refund. And, as a prosecuting attorney, am I protecting the world from randomness?
July 23rd, 2008 at 6:40 pm
Isn’t the devil an archetype? Commonly associated with disorder and chaos?
July 23rd, 2008 at 6:52 pm
I disagree; that letter was definitely written by a self-absorbed hermaphrodite.
July 23rd, 2008 at 7:02 pm
I ran the letter through the gender genie, and it thinks the writer is male. (The gender genie isn’t particularly accurate, though. It thinks I’m male half the time and female the other half. I’m female all the time.)
July 23rd, 2008 at 7:09 pm
““The devil” is bad. “God” is good. This is the agreed-upon standard. So if the Joker is the devil, then is Batman God?”
That really says it all. This movie went right over our supposed “Batman Fan’s” head.
July 23rd, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Speaking of hermaphrodites, is it too late to suggest “You’re Never Too Young to Die” for Eric’s Bad Movies?
Gene Simmons (yes, from KISS) plays a half-man/half-woman/rock star/mad scientist who plots to poison the city’s water supply.
A sample of dialog:
POLICE COMMISSIONER: Any idea who’s behind this?
CHIEF OF POLICE: Yeah. Ragnon.
POLICE COMMISSIONER: Ragnon?! The hermaphrodite?!
July 24th, 2008 at 4:06 am
BATMAN IS REAL!!!
July 24th, 2008 at 6:01 am
““The devil” is bad. “God” is good. This is the agreed-upon standard. So if the Joker is the devil, then is Batman God?”
I also thought this line was most telling. He must have taken some sort of Film as Literature class. Once he learned that you can analyze films, (who knew?) he assumed that he can do it better than everyone else. Unfortunately, he doesn’t appear to be in the habit of analyzing his own reasoning and assumptions.
July 24th, 2008 at 6:23 am
@ClobberGirl
Superman would win, hands down.
July 24th, 2008 at 7:26 am
@Lulu
Sure Superman would win the FIGHT, but Batman would win the WOMEN.
July 24th, 2008 at 8:11 am
Actually, Batman would win because he would use his infinite wealth and resources to obtain some Kryptonite.
July 24th, 2008 at 8:17 am
Hi,
If your picky critic had read his Milton, he might note that Satan is strongly identified with Chaos (actually a specific place, bordering Hell) and anarchy (‘better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven’). I believe that ‘Lord of Misrule’ is one of Satan’s titles.
July 24th, 2008 at 9:58 am
Where was I when we agreed to the standard that “God” is good and “the devil” is bad?
I don’t know who would win between Batman and Superman, but He-Man would whoop up on both of them. At the same time.
July 24th, 2008 at 11:09 am
If you guys spent more time on nerd websites, you’d know that the proper answer to “who would win, Batman or _____?” is always, “Batman, if he had enough time to prepare.”
Now you know… and knowing is half the battle. (Even if you know, though, you’d still lose the battle to Batman, assuming he had enough time to prepare.)
July 24th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Syndrome had a cape…
July 24th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
And that’s what got him in the end. Edna Mode was right!
July 24th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Hey, in response to ClobberGirl:
I’m a girl and I like Batman just fine! One of my all-time fave superheroes. Also, if Batman could afford Kryptonite (which he could), then Supes is goin’ down.
However, I haven’t seen Dark Knight yet, so I’m running away as fast as I can so nothing is spoiled for me!
July 24th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
It’s funny that he tells Eric to go back to Eng Lit and he completely misses the point of why Eric compared the Joker with the Emperor. He was comparing their level of pure evil, not saying the characters were at all the same. Come on, Kelly, go back to an Eng Lit class!
July 24th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Similar to the above point, the Joker does not “want people to delight in chaos.” He does not want people to do anything. He has no plan. He has no motive.
Like John Ellis said, the Joker did have a plan and did want people to do things. He just lied about it. Since the Devil is the father of lies, and Batman Fan believed the Joker’s lies, the Joker is the Devil.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:21 am
Come on people! How many baddies have tried to do away with Superman using Kryptonite, and ACTUALLY SUCCEEDED?
I stand by my assertion – Superman would kick arse.