Boy Scouting: Be Repaired

Snide Remarks #33

"Boy Scouting: Be Repaired"

by Eric D. Snider

Published in The Daily Universe on March 30, 1998

Many students will be graduating next month. To them I say: Good luck finding a place to park at the graduation ceremony! When you get out your car will probably have been towed. Ha-ha, welcome to The World!

Although I'm not graduating this year, or perhaps in any year, I've begun to wonder what I'll do in the event that I do leave BYU. As with most college graduates, I'll have many options. The first of these options is to earn a lot of money by doing nothing.

I learn of these options frequently through the magic of e-mail. E-mail, and the various other computer advancements we have recently made, are nice, but I think I prefer the old days, when computers were useless. Remember when we were kids, and the only thing you could do with computers was play Lemonade Stand and Oregon Trail? Oh sure, we heard fantastic stories of people using computers to solve complicated math equations, and to design the robots of the future, and we wanted to believe that was possible, but we knew in our hearts that the most we'd ever do with our Apple IIe's was sell imaginary lemonade and lead imaginary frontierspeople to their imaginary deaths in Wyoming.

So anyway, things are a lot more advanced now, and through e-mail, we have the luxury of communicating with friends, family, and, most often, total strangers whom we want nothing to do with. Nearly every day I get a message that says something like, "If you are not the kind of person who wants to earn $10,000 a week simply by taking a nap on the floor, then delete this message immediately!" And so I always delete the message immediately, not because I don't want to earn $10,000 a week, but because I know they're lying. And I know they're lying because the next sentence is always: "This is NOT a multi-level marketing scheme!" And if there's one thing I've learned in life, it's that the surest way of identifying a multi-level marketing scheme is when you are told, "This is not a multi-level marketing scheme." It's the same as how when people begin a sentence with, "Now, I'm not a racist, but...," you can be certain you're about to hear something very racist, such as, "I'm not a racist, but I understand all people from Mongolia eat their young." (This also works for sentences beginning with, "I don't want to be rude" and "I don't mean to gossip.")

So the "get rich quick" schemes are a career option, but probably not a very good one, considering they don't work. Whatever I do for a living, though, I'll have to do it outside of Utah. This is not because I dislike Utah. On the contrary, I rather enjoy Utah's majestic mountains and quaint mispronunciations of basic English words. No, the reason I fear I shall have to seek employment out of this state -- and I am ashamed to admit this publicly -- is I never earned my Eagle Scout award.

Please don't stop reading now. If I ever needed a reader, it's now. Please stay with me.

It was made abundantly clear by the many people who spoke to us when I was a Boy Scout that if two equally qualified people were up for the same job, the employer would hire whichever one was an Eagle Scout. I believe this to be one of the many lies the grown-ups told us when we were young and impressionable. I think most employers don't care whether you're an Eagle Scout because for most jobs, being an Eagle Scout won't help you any. ("Farnsworth -- good work on the Johnson account. Your quick knot-tying skills saved the day at that presentation.") And I won't even address the likelihood of two people being up for the SAME job with EXACTLY the same level of expertise, experience and skills, forcing the employer to ask which one knows the hand motions for "Father Abraham Had Many Sons" and which one doesn't.

But despite all this, I suspect the powerful Boy Scout Industry has convinced all the employers in their areas of influence -- Utah, for example -- to use the Eagle Scout test as a means of hiring people, which means I won't get a job around here.

The reason I didn't become an Eagle Scout is simply that I wasn't interested in Scouting. (Believe it or not, I was still able to get a temple recommend with this attitude.) I have nothing against the Scouting program, mind you; it just wasn't for me. And I'm glad I had parents who understood this and didn't insist, as many parents do, that I couldn't get my driver's license until I had gotten my Eagle. I don't wish to criticize the parenting techniques of others, but this is a stupid parenting technique. For my kids, I'm going to insist they can't get their driver's licenses until they've had an article published in a magazine. So what if they aren't interested in writing, or aren't any good at it? Writing and submitting and eventually publishing an article will teach them determination and goal-setting and the value of work. They'll thank me for it later, when they're making $10,000 a week stuffing envelopes.

Notes:

This column was satisfying to me for two reasons. First, I'd been wanting to mention Lemonade Stand and Oregon Trail for a long time; second, I'd been wanting to mock the "no-drivers-license-until-you're-an-Eagle" method of parenting for a long time.

There was much discussion amongst my friends who pre-read the column for me as to which Boy Scout campfire song I should make reference to. I originally had "My name is Joe and I work in a button factory." This proved to be familiar to only about half of the former Boy Scouts I polled. "My Bonnie Lies over the Ocean," while familiar to all, was too awkward to describe in a brief half-sentence, what with its standing up and sitting down motions. So I ultimately went with "Father Abraham Had Many Sons" (though in my troop we sang it about Boy Scout founder and possible creepy old guy Robert Baden-Powell, instead of Abraham).

I am very pleased with the line "I don't wish to criticize the parenting techniques of others, but this is a stupid parenting technique." Not only is it funny on its own, but it's also a nice, semi-subtle reference to an earlier part of the column where I mentioned introductory phrases like "I don't mean to gossip." Did you catch that? Man, I was pleased with that.

I was VERY surprised that I didn't get any e-mail either from parents who had forced the Eagle policy upon their sons, or from guys whose parents had forced it upon them and who had liked the policy. Instead, I got mail from people whose parents forced them to get their Eagles, and who resented their parents because of it. Interesting.

This item has 31 comments

John DOe says:
December 18, 2006 at 12:54 am
This has to be my favorite column because I HATED Boy Scouts. When I decided I didn't want to have anything to do with the lame program, the Scoutmaster had a very serious interview with me about why I disliked scouts. Apparently, it must have something to do with me being a sinner.

Despite only getting 2nd class in Boy Scouts, I graduated from high school as salutatorian, got scholarships and am attending BYU. Another boy in scouts at the same time got his Eagle, failed out of community college and sponges off his family, and another Eagle scout I know is a drunk who works at a gas station. There are others who are success stories, but that isn't because of Scouts, despite what anyone says.
Jason Wright says:
December 18, 2006 at 1:10 pm
I too never got my Eagle and am proud of it. Another problem that i've seen especially in Utah is where the mother earns the award for their child. I was 1 merit badge shy of being n Eagle despite my great hatred to the scouting program. I planned on finishing it but when I saw 2 other young men in my ward get it without even helping with their own project it just cheapened the whole idea of being an Eagle Scout. If I ever have 2 choose between 2 equally qualified candidates i'll find out which one was an Eagle scout and hire his mother.
Greg says:
December 19, 2006 at 3:05 pm
I'm a scout leader and I really dislike the scouting program and I never earned my Eagle. If the scouts don't want to earn the merit badges, oh well. The only problem is that the teachers' advisor keeps trying to push me to push the scouts. Getting an Eagle can have its benefits though. A friend was in the military and now has a law-enforcement job and he got an automatic pay raise because he had his Eagle.
Lowdogg says:
December 21, 2006 at 9:44 am
I like the Scouting program. It is a good program. I had a lot of fun on campouts and enjoyed making fires and using my knife. I love knives. But I didn't get my Eagle.

I don't see how not getting an Eagle Scout award is something to be proud of. That's like saying, "I didn't graduate from High School and I'm proud of it." I think its lame when parents do all the work for their kids, but having an Eagle Scout award is nothing to be ashamed of.

I didn't get my Eagle because I was involved in other activities that I enjoyed more, but I regret not earning it. I could have done it, and was close. I'm not ashamed, but I do regret it.
B says:
February 7, 2007 at 1:50 pm
I was a scout, i made it all the way up to First Class, I figured that was high enough. The only skill I recall from my scouting days is the ability to set almost anything on fire.
whea-wix says:
February 7, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Scouting is a point of contention between my husband and me. He comes from a family of Boy Scout enthusiasts who LOVE Scouting. Criticism of Scouting, in their family, equals criticism of the Church. In my family, however, the Boy Scouts are one step above puppy kickers. My brother, on his very first scout campout, lost an eye because one of the other boys threw a stick at him. In court, gross negligence on the part of the Scout leaders and the Boy Scouts of America was proven.

With this background, I would like to be cautious about the whole â€œYou will be a scoutâ€ attitude with my son (wix-son). My mother in law swears up and down that wix-son will be a scout. No questions. No deviation. As the only son of the only son, he will carry on the tradition of all wixâ€™s getting their Eagle Scout award. But I disappointed her when I did not name him the name she picked out for him, when I did not let her in the delivery room, and when I decided we could not come to their house every Sunday for dinner. I think I am going to disappoint her again when wix-son does not have to do scouting.

Go, Eric. Fight against The Man!
card says:
February 7, 2007 at 2:45 pm
I've never been a boy scout, but I did receive my young womanhood award or whatever it's called. I slapped a few pictures on some paper and called it a scrapbook. I also used a few school projects for the church award, and my mom finished my last project for me. I think I am like the eagle scout whose mother finishes their project for them. I have never worn the medallions. I have never used the award on my resume. Also, I mostly hated young women, but ultimately, it doesn't affect my life.
Randy Tayler says:
February 7, 2007 at 2:59 pm
I never got mine, and felt guilty for a long time. But the idea of doing service SO THAT YOU CAN GET AN AWARD never really made sense. Merit badges? Sure, okay. But getting a big badge that says you performed big service projects?

I think the Church should start a better group for boys -- still include the camping and such, but add in secret service projects.
Brandon says:
February 7, 2007 at 3:10 pm
I never got my Eagle, though my parents pulled the "You can't get your driver's license until you get your Eagle" technique on me.

They gave in after a year and I got my license.

Lesson learned? Kids, with the power of stubborn-ness, you can beat your parents.
Cafe_Au_Lait says:
February 7, 2007 at 8:21 pm
Go, whea-wix! Good for you! And Jason Wright, I really liked your line about hiring the Eagle Scout's mother. It was funny and clever :)
John Doe says:
February 7, 2007 at 10:54 pm
Not graduating from high school and not getting your Eagle award are hardly synonymous. The former is something you pretty much just have to show up for. Not graduating from high school is a serious mark against you, considering how low the standards are. Eagle Scout, on the other hand, is meaningless. Like Eric's analogy, it's like saying your kid is worthless because he hasn't published an article. It looks nice on a resume, but it doesn't make or break a career.
Craig says:
February 8, 2007 at 12:07 am
When I started Scouting, I was gung-ho and highly determined to get my Eagle. However, my troop, affiliated with an East Coast LDS Ward, was fraught with nepotism and indolence. Patrol meetings centered on basketball. Adult leaders would reassign service projects to favored boys, bypassing less worthy converts like myself. Standards were set higher for those of us without Utah roots. Eventually, I grew tired of playing the games and gave up after reaching the rank of Star.
Amanda says:
February 8, 2007 at 12:15 am
Not to brag, but I was REALLY good at Oregon Trail (kids in my 4th grade class would give up their day on the colored computer if I would safely navigate them through the river rafting...) Great column Eric. Lots of fun.
Momma Snider says:
February 8, 2007 at 9:56 am
My feeling was that some kids are interested in scouting-type activities, and some aren't. A good, enthusiastic Scout leader can make a big difference with a kid who IS interested (Lane could have been an Eagle if he'd had some encouragement, for example) but there isn't much point in trying to force someone who just doesn't want to do Boy Scout stuff. They say Eagles are more likely to be goal-oriented when they grow up. Umm, maybe the goal-oriented youth is more likely to become an Eagle.

We had one scout leader who had a son about Eric's age. When Eric was about 16, this guy said, "So it looks like Eric isn't working on his Eagle." He then shook his head in sympathy, as if I'd agreed that Eric had decided to become a serial killer. HIS son got his Eagle and is now a deadbeat.
Andrew D says:
February 8, 2007 at 11:11 am
So Eric's a serial killer? That would explain a lot.
Aaron says:
February 8, 2007 at 1:37 pm
I grew up in Utah and had one those those Third Reich parents that required me to have my eagle before I received my drivers license. I resent them for it to this day. God doesn't like resentment, so he has made me a boy scout leader for the past 4 years in my local church. It's hard, because the corny things that annoyed me as a scout still annoy me to this day, but if I outwardly show the annoyance, the scouts pick up on it and chaos ensues. I've since told my son that he can't get his drivers licence until I get released from scouting.
AdamOndi says:
February 8, 2007 at 1:49 pm
I remember reading this article a few months back, when I was going through the Snide Remarks back catalog chronologically, and this line: "So I ultimately went with "Father Abraham Had Many Sons" (though in my troop we sang it about Boy Scout founder and possible creepy old guy Robert Baden-Powell, instead of Abraham)." read differently. I remember it saying "...Boy Scout founder and possible pedophile Robert Baden-Powell..." instead of "creepy old guy." I was intrigued and read up a little on why Eric mentioned this, and found out that there is a controversy about this that I never heard about when I was a Scout. It was definitely interesting.

Anyway, about the whole Eagle required for Driver's License crap, that will definitely NOT be a rule for my kids. The worst thing you can do is try to force a kid to get his Eagle by holding something like that hostage. This will only foster resentment and bitterness that will stay with the boy long into adulthood (as evidenced by the many commenters on this article who are very negative about Scouting in general).
Momma Snider says:
February 8, 2007 at 2:19 pm
Let me make it clear that I do think scouting is a good program, I just agree that some kids aren't interested. I'm kind of a rebel, I guess. Another thing that would really, really bug me was paying for Scout camp. They always said, "The boy will appreciate it more if he earns the money himself." Not if he doesn't want to go! You make him earn $100 or whatever, and then you make him spend it on something he doesn't want to do in the first place, and you have not created a happy camper. Believe me, I know this.
whome says:
February 8, 2007 at 6:01 pm
It's one thing to feel that an Eagle Scout award is pretty meaningless. It's quite another to be proud not to get one. That's about as snooty as those who are way too proud to have received the award.

I enjoyed scouting -- even though I was one of the picked-on weeklings. I never got my Eagle, or even Life, but my parents were too busy to do it for me, and I had other interests that took up time. I think the fact that my parents didn't give me undue pressure helped me enjoy scouting more.

I've now worked with scouts as a leader, and have found it quite rewarding. There is a structure to scouting, but within that structure, it can (and should) be adapted to meet the needs and interests of the boys.
Fiery Darts says:
February 8, 2007 at 8:17 pm
I am an Eagle Scout, and I was actively involved in scouting until I turned 19 (yes, I can tie a lot more knots than you). The thing was that I enjoyed it. I did all of it because I wanted to. I saw lots of people who were either pushed way too hard to do scouting (some of whom even liked it and still were getting pushed more than they wanted to be) and I saw some troops where everyone became Eagles, even if they were drooling neanderthals.

I don't approve of compulsory award earning, although I do think that compulsory activity attendance is okay, at least insofar as it would be for similar non-scouting activities (e.g. if you make your kids go to church, then making them go to scouts is just the same thing).

Anyway, I figure that at least one person ought to speak up and say that scouting can be a very rewarding, worthwhile pursuit. It's too bad that many of you have had bad experiences with it.
Momma Snider says:
February 9, 2007 at 9:26 am
Thanks, Fiery Darts and whome. I agree with both of you, and you both made your points very well.
Hoosierdaddy says:
February 9, 2007 at 10:14 am
I never advanced farther than 2nd Class when I was a Scout, and I sort of regret that. It seems a monument to my laziness and lack of ambition, two traits that I continue to struggle with.

I think the Scouting program is a great idea, though I agree it's not for everyone. Leadership makes a huge difference. In my childhood ward it was unfortunate that just after I became a Boy Scout a very beloved, motivated and encouraging Scout leader was replaced with a leader who was, shall we say, troubled. Even with this I was always happy to take part in scouting activities (whenever they occured, which was infrequently), and Scout Camp was always a fun way to spend a week in the summer. My parents, knowing some of the challenges the troop was facing, didn't push me too hard with advancing, but they always encouraged me to participate. In some ways I think a little push might not have been a bad thing.

I really think this column is funny, and I like it, but I don't agree with one idea that it seems some people come away with; the idea being that scouting is useless. Scouting, like other teen-focused, activity-based programs, can be very helpful. If nothing else it gives teenage boys a place where they can explore a wide range of wholesome activities in a relatively safe environment. If the program is administered correctly the scout will stretch and in the end have a broader range of experiences that should benefit him in his future.

Now I know some of you are going to say that your troops were anything but wholesome and that all you learned in Scouts was the ritual torture and slaying of small animals; swearing; how to humiliate other boys; arson and so forth; but we all know that that's not what's supposed to happen. If a scouting program is administered half-decently and a boy doesn't want to go because he is busy with other worthwhile activities, then that's great. If, however, a boy doesn't want to go to Scouts because he is too busy: playing video games, watching TV; moping like only a teenager can; or even if he just feel he's too cool to tie a freaking knot, well then I'm going to suggest that those are stupid reasons, and the boy should just get over himself and go to Scouts.
matt says:
February 9, 2007 at 2:14 pm
I feel like I ought to throw in my own scouting experience to defend the program a bit. When I was younger I was well on the track to being a lazy little kid who did nothing but play video games and read star wars books. Aside from the yearly family camping trip, I would have had no outdoor experience. With Scouts, I went on week-long backpacking trips, climbed rocks, learned how to build a fire and identify animal tracks, shot guns and bows, dove off of cliffs into mountain lakes, camped in the snow, caught fish, and more. Ten years later I rarely pick up a video game but spend a couple of days a week in the outdoors doing all that stuff I first did in Scouts.

Scouting isn't really about tying knots, and it shouldn't be about getting the Eagle, it's getting city kids into the woods and hopefully giving them a love for the outdoors. It doesn't take with everyone, and I know some people have rotten experiences with scouting, but I don't think I'd be as happy a person as I am without it.

I could have done without the songs and tall tales, though.
kevith says:
February 9, 2007 at 4:28 pm
I wasn't a huge fan of scouting when I was a teenager, but I did go on a good amount of the campouts and hikes. I didn't have any kind of "Eagle before car" rule or anything, I just figured the troop/church made it so easy to get the Eagle (since so many of the youth activities were planned around scouting) I might regret it if I didn't just go ahead and finish it. Really, the troop/church can walk you through everything so all I was left with were a couple of merit badges and my project. I'm glad I got my Eagle and it really was a good experience, but, to tell the truth, I don't really care if my kids never go to Scouts.
SkipChurch says:
September 30, 2007 at 4:01 pm
Wow, I had no idea that the Boy Scouts were so wired in to the LDS! It makes a lot of sense in a way.

When I lived in Stepford my mom wanted me to be a Boy Scout, and was quite repetitive about it. One day she was washing some dishes and got a short circuit or something, and that was the last I heard about Scouting from her.
Steve says:
October 18, 2007 at 9:58 pm
a lot of people who didn't make Eagle scout try to diminish the award. It's a way of

making themselves equal with someone who accomplished something they didn't. the fact is that if you didn't make Eagle then you really don't know what it feels like to have accomplished it. I went thru the military and made Eagle Scout and while they were sometimes difficult, there's never been a time in the last 40 years when I wished I hadn't done them.
Carl says:
November 13, 2007 at 8:47 pm
Eagle Scout is just one of many activites males can do in their formulative years, along with varsity sports, clubs, etc... It's not a golden ticket into the upper strata of American society, as some would believe. I've interviewed some assertive, confident Eagle Scouts for a Fortune 500 company that management then subsequently decided to hire, and they turned out to be below average or average employees at best. How good of an education you posess, and what you can contribute to your employer is the only thing that matters.
ADVENT SCOUTER says:
November 18, 2007 at 7:58 pm
Well I'd just like to say that I am a scout, and I enjoy it very much. Sure the rules are regulations are crap but you have to have some structure to prevent stupid crap from happening.

Anyways, I had a friend who got in a car wreck last year, nothing major or anything just a few cuts and scrapes as well as a broken arm, but because he was an Eagle Scout and was considered more trustworthy than a deadbeat nobody as some as you seem to consider us scouts, he was free to go after recieveing medical treatment where as the other person went to jail for the night.

Think about that for a bit.
Polish Girl Scout says:
June 26, 2008 at 7:57 pm
As a lifelong member of the Polish Scouting Organization, I stumbled upon this website and comment thread while doing research for activities and games to help my council celebrate the 100th anniversary of the scout movement. The entire string is truly fascinating. A few observations:

1. Yes, it is true that scouting is not for everyone, and that's OK. However, for those of us who have found a sense of fulfillment and enjoyment by working with young people in order to help them develop a sense of honor, respect, service to others, and loyalty, it is truly vexing to read comments berating scout leaders. If you were a lazy, uninspired teenager, then admit it and move on. Please understand that those leaders often spend many hours of unpaid time preparing activities for you to roll your eyes at. And we keep doing it, day after day, year after year. The rewarding part comes when 20 years later, one of your scouts comes back and says "Thank you for busting my chops all those years."

2. To those of you who truly earned your Eagle Scout (as opposed to had someone do it for you), I truly hope that you always state that fact proudly. The rank of Eagle Scout should be held in high esteem, as it shows that the earner has the committment and desire to successfully finish something that he has begun, which is truly a valuable trait in this day and age.

By the way, the Polish Scouting Organization is the second oldest scouting organization in the world. Our founder, Andrzej Malkowski and his wife Olga, became friends of Robert Baden-Powell soon after his first successful camp at Brownsea Island and Andrzej was the first to translate BP's book "Scouting for Boys" into another language. If you've actually read "Scouting for Boys" (as I have), you may not be so quick to call Baden-Powell "creepy old guy" or "pedophile" as some of you were. It's a sad statement of the times we live in when that is the automatic assumption about someone who works to improve the lives of children. If you take a look around you at the children who live in your neighborhood, they need more people like BP and the people who have followed in his footsteps.

A final thought: For those of you who think that those skills you learned as scouts have no real-world applications, you really didn't learn them. I use my scout skills everyday. Additionally, the Polish Boy and Girl Scouts were attached to the Polish Underground Army during World War II and fought side-by-side with the soldiers of the Warsaw uprising. Their many skills - from knots to first-aid to tracking to code making and breaking - were put to use in the defense of their homeland. Please try to remember that in today's unstable political world. I'm very glad that I have an Eagle Scout living next door.
bucketofsquid says:
November 3, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Having been kick out of cubscouts, by my mother (yeh, my mom!), I thought I was immune to ever participating in scouting again. It seems that setting fire to the church as an eight year old does not keep the church from calling you to be a cubmaster, assistant scoutmaster, or a scoutmaster as an adult. I truly hate camping but we camp every month. Six years with cubs and four with scouts and no end in sight.

I never push them to do anything they don't want to do. What I try instead is to find ways to help them want to go camping or work on merit badges. When this fails I simply let the parents know and my job is done.

Many of the skills that scouts learn are only useful in an emergency or disaster. That doesn't make them useless. I would, however, like to see the church run its own youth program for the boys and abandon the scouting program. We don't have a problem with our own girls program so why not the boys too?
yeahimaeaglemom says:
May 28, 2011 at 7:35 pm
I am a proud mother of an Eagle Scout. No, I didnâ€™t earn it for him. I didnâ€™t push him into doing something he didnâ€™t want to. I didnâ€™t hold his driverâ€™s license over his head if he didnâ€™t do what I wanted. Iâ€™m guessing, if it was being held over your head to force you to get your Eagle, it would have been held over your head to force you to do something else they thought you should do. If your parent did this to you, the blame should be placed on the parent not the organization. (I will leave that one to you and your therapist to discuss.) But to put someone else down for accomplishing something you chose not to is, well, childish and immature. You should have paid more attention in Cub Scouts there are chapter on sportsmanship and how to treat others etc. The experiences that my son has had, the places he has had the opportunity to go, and meeting the interesting people he has met, are things he would never have been able to do without scouting. But you have to find the troop that fits you; we changed troops because the one we started in just wasnâ€™t the right one for him. The reason Eagle Scouts are chosen over other applicants in other areas of life is because Scouting isnâ€™t just about tying notes and building fires, itâ€™s about dedication, perseverance, and attitude. All qualities an employer or college are looking for. My son had four scholarships awarded to him when he started college last year. When we went to orientation and had the opportunity to meet two of the representatives whom awarded the scholarships. He was told by both representatives that the reason they were given to him were because he had earned his Eagle, even over the applicants more qualified. Scouts is not about awards, Even though all of you know you like to get an award when you have worked hard and earned it, Scout is about LIFE EXPERIANCES, opening doors that may have never been available to you, trying new things. I know scouts isnâ€™t for everyone but donâ€™t scout hate just because it wasnâ€™t for you. One more thing, what are you going to do when your child decide Scouts is what he wants to do, complain and make it miserable for him or suck it up and act like a grown up, making it the best experience for him as possible? Truth is I donâ€™t like sleeping in a tent either but I would do it again in a heartbeat, just so he can experience what he like to do again.

This work may not be transmitted via the Internet, nor reproduced in any other way, without written consent from Eric D. Snider.

Eric D. Snider